tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2710965676105213198.post5356297048581682973..comments2013-05-23T13:45:25.630-04:00Comments on Analog Reigns: The Triune GodRalphhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01966235952396411164noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2710965676105213198.post-86174749630438626872010-12-06T13:11:45.433-05:002010-12-06T13:11:45.433-05:00As to the mutual-love theory being a part of the f...As to the mutual-love theory being a part of the filioque controversy, I don't think it was, directly, anyway. I believe Augustine speculated a bit about the mutual love theory, but, since that theory (not the concept of the holy Trinity itself) is seemingly unprovable by scripture, it has never been dogma. I know Kelly & Brown made clear that the E. Orthodox really don't like Augustine (not even accepted as a Saint, or a Church Father in the East)...and theologically, that's where the Eastern/Western break started. Augustine's predestinarian views too, stick in the throat of the EO's which may be one reason Reformed types, as a rule, haven't been attracted to EO like other evangelicals have. I do know (and perhaps it was you who explained this to me) that the more vertical procession of the Holy Spirit was/is insisted upon by the EO's in order to preserve the idea that He is a Person, not merely an impersonal power/force. They may be right on that too--and I for one don't have a problem with compromising in saying the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father THROUGH the Son...(although the idea that the HS is sent by both, is clearly biblical too, so...). I do think much of the problem then (and now) is linguistic, and, as I hinted at in the previous post--theology getting so specific as to give the illusion that mysteries such as the tri-unity of God can actually be comprehended. <br /><br />Apprehension is worship, and must be maintained when drawing near to the fear of the Lord.Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01966235952396411164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2710965676105213198.post-59442518928937048092010-12-06T13:00:13.656-05:002010-12-06T13:00:13.656-05:00Jeremiah, I do believe that most Christians are mo...Jeremiah, I do believe that most Christians are modalistic by default...in that we just cannot capture a tri-unity of three persons as one being, in our finite minds--and its uncomfortable to try to think of anything while admitting we cannot really conceive of it.<br /><br />The holy Trinity is a direct assault on human pride, in that way, as it must be understood only through the eyes of faith--since holy Scripture speaks of all three, Father, Son and Holy Spirit as God, yet treats each one personally--and what the mind cannot conceive, the mind cannot in someway tame, or control. So really, God the holy Trinity can only be accepted in a stance of worship.<br /><br />My first two comments other than you, came from non-believers in Jesus as God the Son, about this posting. I chose not to post their comments, as, especially for subjects so holy, I won't allow heretical views posted here.<br /><br />Both seemed ignorant that 99%+ today, and historically, of those who name the name of Christ, and call themselves His followers, accept the orthodox teachings of the holy Trinity...and that it is clearly provable by the Bible (even in the Old Testament...). It is very sad the level of confusion today on this issue and others. It is no wonder that in basic things like ethics...confusion trickles down. Makes me more and more a believer in the historic, confessional Churches--as the authentic witnesses of Christ Jesus. <br /><br />In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen!<br /><br />Jesus is LORD! Amen and AMEN!!!Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01966235952396411164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2710965676105213198.post-85154899562625233072010-12-02T21:57:41.180-05:002010-12-02T21:57:41.180-05:00I was wondering if the "mutual love" ide...I was wondering if the "mutual love" idea of the Holy Spirit would be brought up...Though it wasn't mentioned in the essay, it made it into your comment. I just had the thought: Is it possible that the "mutual love" idea came out of the West's desire for the filioque in the Nicene Creed? That would be interesting to look into. <br /><br />I'm glad the author was so explicit in saying "He" with reference to the H.S. I hear way, way, way too many people say "it" when talking about the third PERSON of the Trinity. I've even heard some of our professors do it occasionally!!<br /><br />I do have to say that the comment about modern day Pentecostal churches should have been better qualified. The fellow makes it sound like all of them teach modalism. Some of them very much do, but not every group does. Just saying...<br /><br />Anyway, a thought on Modalism: A professor of mine from college once said that he thought that most Christians thought modalistically because no one is careful to teach about the Trinity properly. I think this is something that has really gotten to me because I find myself constantly challenging people on understanding the Trinity. It can be frustrating because no one can understand the Trinity, but we are called to believe it, but do we really since we can't understand it???<br /><br />Anyway, sorry for these disjointed thoughts.<br /><br />Good read btw!J.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13978510948065137234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2710965676105213198.post-63206248065550126322010-12-01T17:34:55.383-05:002010-12-01T17:34:55.383-05:00I would add to this, what Dr. Doug Kelly emphasize...I would add to this, what Dr. Doug Kelly emphasizes in his book. John's statement "God is Love" is impossible without God being a tri-unity. Love must have an object for it to exist. One cannot speak of love, without a beloved. If an essential quality of God is love, then, since we know the World has not existed eternally and had a beginning, for love to have been an eternal quality of God, some sort of plurality must exist in the very nature of our one God. At least a binary God is necessary, logically. <br /><br />Jonathan Edwards speculated that the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, can correctly be understood as pure love, personified...even though of course each of the 3 Persons is also pure love personified, since John's statement didn't identify the Person....still, a beautiful idea--if one we cannot quite grasp. <br /><br />God the Father's love for His Son, and God the Son's love for His Father, so strong, from all eternity that very love is personified. Call the "mutual love" hypothesis of the Holy Spirit. Provable by Scripture? Not that I know of, still, a lovely speculation.Ralphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01966235952396411164noreply@blogger.com